Hi/Bye

topic posted Fri, April 1, 2005 - 11:25 AM by  Celestial
I just joined after reading George's post in Buddhism tribe, read the very first post in this tribe which was markedly anti-Israeli, and now I'm leaving. Let me just say that it saddens me deeply to see something like that right off the bat. Should you ever find yourself with loved ones living in Israel or friends of yours murdered for no appreciable reason whatsoever at a blues bar which welcomes Jews AND Muslims, for Christ's sake, should you have to make phone call after phone call after every act of terrorism you see on the news to make sure your loved ones are OK, nice people who just want to live in their country, should you have this issue shoved in your face almost every time you let it slip to some stranger that you're Jewish; you might take a different opinion.

Me, that's one area in which I'm NOT going to be an apologist.

George thanks and sorry for the rant, I know you have good intentions; I'm going to stick to the Jewish and TB tribes I guess.

Best,
C


posted by:
Celestial
Massachusetts
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Hi/Bye

    Fri, April 1, 2005 - 1:45 PM
    *sigh*

    First off, I'm not ant-Israel, just as I am not anti-American or anti-California, or anti-human. I am anti-unhealthy actions.

    When someone or some state acts in an unhealthy way, I believe that it should be viewed as such, in order to prevent it from continuing and/or being repeated in the future.

    Unless you are honest with yourself and the world around you, you will act and/or continue to act in unhealthy ways. The only way to make the world truly better is to be as honest as you can possibly be.

    I do not think that any of the above listed states/groups have an easy time of it, but that's kind of the point. When humans and/or their organizations are put in stressful/unhealthy situations, doing what is best for themselves and those around them will probably result in a bettering of the situation. If you blindly lash out attack, the world, and yourself especially, will suffer.

    Currently, I am memorizing a monologue of Creon's in Antigone. Creon is the perfect example of someone doing this. Many view him as the antagonist, but I do not. I see him as a basically good man that gets too caught in a belief system (i.e. is righteous) and because of it destroys himself and all he believes in. I see all of the above mentioned groups in the same spot (except for humans, some of them are not caught in this). It is a very Western problem.

    I feel bad for Israel, on multiple levels. First, of course, are the terrorist attacks that kill, frighten, and damage the people. Second, and possibly more tragically, are the acts that Israel has done in the past, and until very recently continued to do, that made things worse. Just as I feel sad for myself when I was younger and in horrible situations and making them worse, I feel bad for Israel doing the same thing. It is true tragedy.

    I'm very sorry to you, Celestial. I did not mean to hurt anyone. I may have said my words in an unhealthy mood, I haven't read what I wrote since I put it in here. However, my intention was not to make Israel into an antagonist, but to point out that it is partly responsible for its own situation. I forget that others don't know that I see the horrible cycle that it is in.

    Another note: the Palestinians are doing the same thing. They are as much responsible for their own plight as the Israelis are for theirs. It is truly sad.

    I do think that Israel, as it is the one with the most power and with America as an ally, should (and is, thankfully) make the first move for peace. I hope that the current peace process works. I really, really, really, really, really do.
  • This post was deleted by (unknown)
    • U
      U
      offline 25

      Re: Hi/Bye

      Fri, April 1, 2005 - 5:17 PM
      she's talking about my post, i think, in which i applauded israeli refuseniks for choosing not to be terrorists.

      by the way, i saw carl webb speak at umass the other day, with millie guzman of the anti-recruitment group latinos contra la guerra. they were both great. if only we had more brave people like that and fewer chickenshit fighters.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Hi/Bye

        Fri, April 1, 2005 - 6:05 PM
        Is there no chance of converting the fighters through non-aggressive words?
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        Re: Hi/Bye

        Fri, April 1, 2005 - 6:20 PM
        I deleted that b/c it was not of a Pussy nature and therefore not conducive of an environment where Pussy's feel welcome.
        • U
          U
          offline 25

          Re: Hi/Bye

          Sat, April 2, 2005 - 4:19 PM
          humph.
          • U
            U
            offline 25

            Re: Hi/Bye

            Mon, April 18, 2005 - 9:46 PM
            okay, now that i'm moderating, i don't need to worry about george deleting my posts.

            essentially what i said in my above post was: good fucking riddance to zionist self-hating trash.
            • U
              U
              offline 25

              Re: Hi/Bye

              Mon, April 18, 2005 - 9:50 PM
              to add: this is now an anti-racist tribe. support for zionism or other ideologies of racial supremacy will not be tolerated, even if they're expressed by self-styled "buddhists".

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